Qed, a systemd free chakra is possible


(tom) #1

salve

it was a experiment if it’s possible and it is possible as you can see:

[tom@donar ~]$ LC_ALL=C pacman -Q systemd
error: package 'systemd' was not found
[tom@donar ~]$ pstree
init─┬─3*[agetty]
     ├─console-kit-dae─┬─{console-kit-dae}
     │                 ├─{gdbus}
     │                 ├─{gmain}
     │                 └─{vt_thread_start}
     ├─3*[dbus-daemon]
     ├─2*[dbus-launch]
     ├─dconf-service─┬─{gdbus}
     │               └─{gmain}
     ├─dhcpcd
     ├─gconfd-2
     ├─init
     ├─kactivitymanage─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │                 ├─3*[{QThread}]
     │                 └─{QXcbEventReader}
     ├─kdeconnectd─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │             ├─{QXcbEventReader}
     │             └─{Qt bearer threa}
     ├─kdeinit5─┬─kaccess─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │          │         └─{QXcbEventReader}
     │          ├─kded5─┬─palemoon─┬─6*[{Analysis Helper}]
     │          │       │          ├─{BgHangManager}
     │          │       │          ├─{Cache I/O}
     │          │       │          ├─{Cache2 I/O}
     │          │       │          ├─{Cert Verify}
     │          │       │          ├─{Compositor}
     │          │       │          ├─{DNS Resolver #2}
     │          │       │          ├─2*[{DOM Worker}]
     │          │       │          ├─{Goanna_IOThread}
     │          │       │          ├─{HTML5 Parser}
     │          │       │          ├─{Hang Monitor}
     │          │       │          ├─{IPDL Background}
     │          │       │          ├─{Image Scaler}
     │          │       │          ├─{ImageBridgeChil}
     │          │       │          ├─{ImageDecoder #4}
     │          │       │          ├─{ImageIO}
     │          │       │          ├─{JS Watchdog}
     │          │       │          ├─{Link Monitor}
     │          │       │          ├─{MediaManager}
     │          │       │          ├─{Proxy R~olution}
     │          │       │          ├─{Socket Thread}
     │          │       │          ├─{StreamTrans #28}
     │          │       │          ├─{Timer}
     │          │       │          ├─{dconf worker}
     │          │       │          ├─{gdbus}
     │          │       │          ├─{gmain}
     │          │       │          ├─{localStorage DB}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #10}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #1}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #2}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #3}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #4}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #5}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #6}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #7}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #8}
     │          │       │          ├─{mozStorage #9}
     │          │       │          └─{palemoon}
     │          │       ├─{QDBusConnection}
     │          │       └─{QXcbEventReader}
     │          ├─klauncher─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │          │           └─{QXcbEventReader}
     │          ├─konsole─┬─bash───pstree
     │          │         ├─{QDBusConnection}
     │          │         └─{QXcbEventReader}
     │          └─ksmserver─┬─kwin_x11─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │                      │          ├─{QQmlThread}
     │                      │          ├─{QXcbEventReader}
     │                      │          └─{kwin_x11}
     │                      ├─{QDBusConnection}
     │                      └─{QXcbEventReader}
     ├─kglobalaccel5─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │               └─{QXcbEventReader}
     ├─krunner─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │         ├─{QQmlThread}
     │         └─{QXcbEventReader}
     ├─kuiserver5─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │            └─{QXcbEventReader}
     ├─plasmashell─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │             ├─2*[{QQmlThread}]
     │             ├─{QQuickPixmapRea}
     │             ├─{QXcbEventReader}
     │             └─{plasmashell}
     ├─polkit-kde-auth─┬─{QDBusConnection}
     │                 ├─{QXcbEventReader}
     │                 ├─{gdbus}
     │                 └─{gmain}
     ├─polkitd─┬─6*[{JS Helper}]
     │         ├─{gdbus}
     │         ├─{gmain}
     │         └─{polkitd}
     ├─pulseaudio─┬─{alsa-sink-VT170}
     │            └─{alsa-source-VT1}
     ├─rc───sddm─┬─Xorg─┬─{InputThread}
     │           │      └─{Xorg}
     │           ├─sddm-helper───ck-launch-sessi───startkde───kwrapper5
     │           └─{QDBusConnection}
     ├─rtkit-daemon───2*[{rtkit-daemon}]
     ├─start_kdeinit
     ├─udevd
     ├─upowerd─┬─{gdbus}
     │         └─{gmain}
     ├─wpa_supplicant
     └─xembedsniproxy───{QXcbEventReader}

…but it need a lot of effort because there are mass needles dependencies to systemd. this means a lot of recompile or use a third party source to get a workable state.

after enjoyable weeks it is time to go back to business and systemd monotony because the next update will break my system.

my conclusion oft his exiting trial is, if you don’t want systemd you must leaf chakra and go ahead to a non systemd projekt :frowning:


(Nuno Santos) #2

@brikler,

From an ordinary user point of view what are the pros and cons of systemd?


(tom) #3

systemd-timers and systemd-journal are a absolute pro for me but systemd couldn’t handle my partition layout and so is a poweroff only with a timeout possible.

a not rational con is sytemd isn’t KISS because systemd are a software suit and you must update it if you use these programs or not and all without your permission because systemd was introduced “only” as init.

a other not rational reason is you can’t change the init system without massive recompile if you want something different, this was never a problem in history because there was always a war “do it… if you could”

systemd introduced some new groups and does a lot of work hidden from your eyes i mean systemd-tmpfiles or sysctl handling or fstab handling a example:
you want to mount a tmpfs for /tmp per fstab entry and mask or delete tmp.mount the boot will fail => fstab isn’t respected any more

the software suit could be updated at once and this is a pro for distros.

there is a int comparison on the gentoo wiki https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems

==> the decision between init systems are more a “feel comfortable” decision and less a rational one.


(Nuno Santos) #4

I’ve seen a lot o buzz about systemd. Some guys even created Devuan because of it.

I never understood the practical effects of systemd. Red Hat created (right? ) and they are committed to deliver enterprise solutions, which depend on the reliability of the systems. So I was prompted to believe that systemd could be user-friendly and another way of avoiding some complexity about linux distros.

Seems I wasn’t thinking straight and systemd seems to have some glitches. But everybody seems to be embracing it.


(tom) #5

…and a unified user interface to do the daemon administration and systemd is this interface, the layer between.
you can start or stop services one time or every time, create time units, system logging, network, system measurements, boot and shutdown …systemd simplifies this task.
in this way systemd reduce complexity because other init daemons couldn’t do this, runit as example, you can “only” boot, shutdown, en- and disable daemons, start and stop it and logging and for other tasks you need other tools like dhcpcd.
…and don’t forget reliability means also easy to use because one program is more easy to learn than 3 programs to learn to work efficient with.

really? the most doesn’t care about i suppose.
there is a button to press and then is something magic happen and after you have a desktop to work with.


(system) #6

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